#371 | Mothers in the Birth Space: Should You Have Her There? How Women Decide.

In today’s episode, we take on a question many women think about but don’t always say out loud: should your mother be at your birth?

We share listener voicemails from women who made very different choices. Some had their mothers in the room, some kept them close by but not present for the birth, and others chose not to include them at all.

It’s a candid, interesting conversation that gets into what shapes that decision and why it can feel more complicated than you might expect, even in close, supportive relationships.

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Transcript

I'm Cynthia Overgard, birth educator, advocate for informed consent, and postpartum support specialist. And I'm Trisha Ludwig, certified nurse midwife and international board certified lactation consultant. And this is the Down To Birth Show. Childbirth is something we're made to do. But how do we have our safest and most satisfying experience in today's medical culture? Let's dispel the myths and get down to birth.

Mothers can’t live with them. Can’t live without them. I love my mother. I know I adore my mother. I absolutely, I absolutely can live with my mother. We’re very fortunate in that way, because that isn’t the case for every woman out there. The mother-daughter relationship can be one of the most difficult relationships in your life. It is one of the most intense relationships in life, and I feel the same with my daughter. I feel intensely close to my mom and intensely close to my daughter. I have two brothers. I have a son. I had a dad who I absolutely adored. It’s different with women. I always sense that. I know my mother feels very close to her three children, but I don’t think my brothers are even aware of how close she and I are and the things that she and I have shared and talked about, just because we’re both female, we’re mother and daughter, it’s just a different relationship. In today’s episode, we’re going to talk about who to have at your birth, and in particular, whether to have your own mother at your birth. Perhaps because of the closeness some of us share with our moms, they’re not necessarily the right person to have at birth.

Yeah, this is one of those episodes where there is not really a right or wrong answer. Similarly to the conversation we recently had around when is the right age to start having children and how spaced apart should they be or not be, there are so many variables to consider here, and this is such a personal choice. So we’re just going to hear the varying opinions of women in our community who shared why and how they came to the decision they did about whether or not to have their mother at birth, and talk about ways that you can communicate that decision to your mom, because that’s a big part of this. If you decide not to, communicating it effectively to her, or finding ways maybe that you can incorporate her or have her in the birth in a way that feels supportive and good, but not totally present, like maybe not in the birth space with you, so a middle-ground type of situation where she can be involved, but not your main support person or even secondary support person, right?

I do want to start by thanking all the women who called in. We received many voice messages and many women who shared similar perspectives, but we took a good sampling, and we’re not necessarily playing full messages. We tried to group them by opinion, basically. So sometimes we’ll listen to two or three segments at a time, and then just a single one, and the women who called in, I think, pretty much cover all ground, or almost all ground. So Trisha, just before we do that, it is interesting that you and I are each extremely close to our own moms, and you opted to have your mother at your birth, and I opted to have my mother one wall away, one room away. So she was always the very first person to come into the room the moment each baby came out of me. But it was right, I believe, to have her one wall away. So let’s just share our own opinions on that first because, again, it isn’t a reflection of how much a woman adores her own mom. It’s a reflection of whether she belongs in that space. So what made you believe your mother would be right, even though your mom only made one ridiculous comment on North’s incredibly beautiful birth video? Oh my God, you did set yourself up for that, and you should have known that, because I could have told you your mom would be a loose cannon in that she says things that are very unpredictable.

Okay, well, we’ll have to share that.

Well, first of all, I didn’t just choose to have my mom at my first birth with Lola. I actually chose to give birth in her home. I gave birth in my mother’s bedroom, in my mother’s bed. So that’s like next level.

Was she allowed in the room, though, at the time?

Oh yeah, yeah, her bedroom, her room, her bathroom, okay, her home. She was there. I mean, I had so many people. My first birth, it’s hard for me to even, I can’t even tell you where my mother was throughout the labor. My first birth was a party, which wasn’t exactly the best choice, and I had a long labor. Now I look back and I’m like, huh, maybe my midwife was right. Maybe I should not have had a dozen people there. But my mother was going to be there no matter what. That was just, I didn’t even think about it. It wasn’t even a thought. Then at my second birth, it was very important to me to have her there for the birth and through the postpartum especially. Other than my husband, she was my main support person. My husband went back to work with all of my children within days of the babies being born, so she was the person who really took care of me.

At my third birth, she missed it because everybody missed it, except Paul, who walked in the room right as North was coming out. He caught the last moment of the birth on camera, which is why I have that sweet little birth video of him coming out. But the comment you’re referring to is, she walked in the room elated, couldn’t believe that the baby was already here, took one look at North and said the first thing she said. She said, “Oh my God, he doesn’t look funny like Ruby.” Because when Ruby was born, we were all a little unsure about what was going to happen, because her nose was really turned up. It was completely turned up, which, of course, changed over the days after birth. But she must have just had her nose squished right up against the side of my belly, and it was concerning. And her mouth was wide open. She was that baby who had a mouth full of water at birth and looked like she was screaming but wasn’t. And yeah, that’s still how she is.

Yeah, my mom and I, we didn’t disagree on whether she should be there, nor did we disagree that she should be within arm’s reach, but not quite in the space. That’s because my mother will do absolutely anything for me, and she would adhere to any request that I could possibly make of her. She’s incredible. The thing that I know my mom is not capable of, and I know she would agree, is she would not be able to take that little worry out from between her eyebrows. She just couldn’t relax. For her, when each baby came out of us, including my sisters-in-law, my mom’s first overwhelming emotion is not joy, it’s relief. She gets very, very thank God. It’s always just this massive relief. And it’s that part of her that I, and no one knows her as well as I know her. I always say no one knows your parents as well as you do, and no one knows your children as well as you do. In fairness, that’s exactly the same as saying no one in the world will ever know me as well as my two children or my own parents, because parents and children just study each other morning, noon, and night for years. They stare at each other for thousands and thousands of hours. They know every little polite smile, sincere laugh, comment, tone of voice, glance. We know each other intimately, so any concern my mom would have would be instantly palpable to me, instantly, which would rob me of complete focus in my birth. So the way I always say it is she just loves me a little too much to be right there in that birth space. But that’s just my fun way of phrasing it. There are many women who love their daughters just as much and can be there, so it’s not quite a fair characterization.

I think one of the things that made it so easy for me to just know that my mother was going to be there, my mom’s always been my guiding light as far as health and wellness. She’s a very holistic, healthy person. She never questioned my decision to have a home birth. She had natural births herself. She breastfed. So for her, this was just normal, natural birth, and she’s my go-to person who always made me feel safe and secure. If I was injured or sick, she always had the answer. So I never worried that she would feel concerned about me in birth, that she would only feel like a safe, supportive person, and that’s, I think, exactly what it comes down to when choosing whether or not to have your mother at birth. First and foremost, how does it make you feel in your body to think about your mom being in that vulnerable space with you? Does it make you feel guarded? Does it make you feel protective? Or does it make you feel safe, calm, and relaxed?

The thing that I was saying about my mom, she also would be my go-to person in so many ways. In that regard, is that I would be worried about her because she would be worried about me. And that’s the complication. It’s like I would be looking to her saying, “Don’t worry,” and she would be looking at me like, “I’m not worried. Just what can I do?” Just a cycle of worry. I would see in her eyes that she is, no matter what she would say to try to relax, there wouldn’t be a relaxed, easy smile. There would be just very, very loving eyes on me. And I would just know behind those eyes, there’s like, “Oh, please God, let everything be okay.” I just know that. So I would have felt the need to look out for her, and she would have felt that’s ridiculous, I’m here to look out for you. That’s just how it is.

That’s a great screening question for whether or not your mother is the right person to have directly in the room with you or not. How much of me is going to be worried about her? And if you feel like you’re going to be focused on her rather than her bringing you relief, then I would say that’s a good reason not to. And that’s okay. That says nothing about your relationship with your mother, or your depth of love, or your desire to have her be close to you and your baby. It’s literally just about creating the most safe, calm, relaxed space for yourself, so that you can be entirely focused on what’s going on within yourself and nothing outside yourself, right?

Yes, exactly. I couldn’t have done that. I saw the look on her face when she walked in the room each time. I just looked at her and thought, “Oh, my poor mother.” That was so hard for her to hear me in labor. That was so, so hard for her. So we definitely had the same opinion about it. But before we start playing these, I think we just have to take one step forward and think now, what does that mean for you at your daughter’s birth? Lord, help me if my daughters don’t allow me at their birth.

Oh, I know. I think about that all the time. I think there’s no way, well, because I run a postpartum support group, I think all the time about what kind of mother and mother-in-law I want to be, because there are so many, and I use this term in my group, there are so many no-fault situations. Sometimes a woman complains about her mother-in-law or her mother, and sometimes it’s a legitimate issue and they need to deal with it, and we talk about it, but other times I’m like, look, this is a no-fault situation. I can absolutely see where she was coming from. She came in and did something generous or helpful in your house, and she didn’t know you were feeling that you just wanted to hold your baby and run into the bedroom and be left alone, or you wanted to let go of the baby and have free hands for once. You have to communicate what your needs are, and I hope I will always be asking for that feedback, like, please tell me what you need from me, because there’s no way for me to guess. I don’t want to presume. Give me constant feedback about how I can best serve you. Because women, I just think that it’s very complicated. All right, with that said, we got a lot of voicemails in. Again, I mostly reduced it to segments because so many of them were so long, but I kept the core of each woman’s opinion here, and again, I grouped them together based on similar responses. So we’re going to start with the first group.

Nobody wants to birth with an audience, first of all, and then I think secondly, it’s just a lot different. You know your mom best, right? Some moms are just going to be way in your space. They’re not going to help you. My mom, she’s just very emotional, and I am not, and I just don’t want that in my space. I want to stay calm and cool. She’s very okay with it. She’s not ever been upset by it. She’s very respectful of my decision. I think if your mom loves and supports you, they’re going to be there for you no matter how you need them there. So if that means coming in after, they’re going to come in after.

My opinion is a hard no. I think as a mom, it’s really hard to see your daughter go through something that is so beautiful but so much pain at the same time. Seeing my mom see me in pain would make me feel so guilty and so distracted.

Well, that was sort of what I was saying earlier, right? That woman is feeling she’ll be too concerned about, she knows how hard it will be for her mother to watch her in any kind of discomfort, right? Yeah. One of the most touching and heartbreaking and personal memories of my life that I think encapsulates the complexity of this in the way I was trying to articulate is my mother, 25 years ago, was undergoing a surgery that had me so concerned, so worried. And I know she was worried. I was in the room just as she was, I don’t know about losing consciousness, that’s sort of my memory, but she was sort of like her eyes were closing, and she was just about to be in surgery, and I was standing by her feet, and I think I gave her foot a squeeze or something, but I looked at her, and I smiled at her, and she looked at me with the most beautiful, loving eyes and smile, just a gentle smile, and silently, because the doctors were around, she just mouthed the words, “Don’t worry.” That just moved me so deeply, because she had every reason to worry for herself, and she was looking at me, trying to comfort me in that moment when all I wanted was to comfort her. She was about the age I am now, and I was a young woman at the time, but that just explains the complexity of a mother-daughter relationship. Even in probably one of her scariest moments of her entire life, she looked at me, and all she wanted to convey was, “Don’t worry.” She’s always a mother. Mothers are always mothers. Okay, let’s continue.

I don’t trust her energy in my birthing space at all, and I do feel kind of guilty about it, but I also feel like she has enough self-awareness to get that, so I am going to have to have the conversation with her. I really need a quiet, low-key, low-traffic birth space for myself. I think she has enough awareness of her own reactivity to understand how that might pull me out of that primal state. So I do feel a little guilty and sad about it. I’m actually currently pregnant with my third baby, and have reached out to both my stepmom and my mother-in-law about attending the birth of this baby, because I know that in the moment, if I change my mind or need space, both of them would gladly step away, go downstairs for coffee or go for a walk, something like that. No one’s feelings are going to be hurt, and it’s not going to be used as a weapon against us. I do have a mom who does live close, and she has not been invited to the birth of any of my children, because she’s just not a peaceful presence in my life. And if she were invited to the birth, and I changed my mind while I was delivering this baby, it would cause a lot of problems. So I have decided to only include people that I would feel okay with saying, or having my husband say, “We need space right now.” And they would hear that, understand, and step away.

What it boiled down to for me was if she is someone who fears birth or understands birth, and my mom, unfortunately, is someone who greatly fears birth and never had a questioning attitude when it came to birth. So it’s important for me personally to protect my environment when giving birth, and I like to have people there who believe in medical intervention when it’s necessary, but also believe in women’s autonomy and trusting their instincts and knowing what to do. So that’s how I approach anyone that I invite into my birth space, is their attitude around birth and women’s autonomy in it.

Okay, let’s start with the middle one there. There’s a couple different concepts going on here. The middle one was really about really good boundaries. That woman has really good trust and boundaries with, she said, her stepmom and her mother-in-law. And it’s her mother that she wouldn’t feel comfortable with. There are three different moms in there, so I think that’s super important. If you trust that when you say what you need, that person is going to listen, it’s a lot easier to be kind of laissez-faire about having them there. Sure, you can be there, but if I decide at some point I need you to step out, that you’re going to totally respect that and listen, and it’s not going to be something that’s going to pull me out of my birth space. Or even if I say something like, “I need you to just not talk right now. You can be here, but I just need you to not talk,” or “I need you to not touch me like that,” or whatever it is. As long as you feel really confident that they’re going to respect your wishes, it’s easier to have that person there.

If you do have a mom who trusts birth and can pass that first requirement of being approved as someone who can be at your birth, I think a great barometer is what she said. How will they respond if you have a change of heart, if you ask to be alone? I know my mom would have been totally respectful of that. Like I always joke with my friends, if I’m on the phone, my dad was always the same way on the phone with my mom, and I even hint that I have to get off the phone, if I start to say, “Okay, Mom,” or “I have to,” she’s like, “Okay, I’ll talk to you later.” She immediately signs off. She doesn’t want to keep me on for two seconds longer if she senses I need to run. I think that’s a really good imaginary test.

I do think it’s a pretty smart move to not have anyone at your birth who doesn’t really trust birth. If they are afraid of what’s happening, that energy is palpable, even if they don’t say anything. Even if they know how to support you, you will feel their discomfort, and you’re going to be micromanaging it emotionally and physically within your body, and it’s going to affect your physiology. So if you know that somebody doesn’t trust birth, even no matter how much you love them and want them there, they are probably not the right person to have there, especially to the extent that you love them, because you know how scary that is for them, and you know how much they’re worried.

I don’t really think we should be worried about them that much. I think you should be worried really just about yourself in birth, but having that conversation beforehand is important so that they understand why you don’t want them there and they don’t feel hurt by that.

Yeah. And then the first one, she was talking about people keeping her in her primal space. So to me, that comes down to your vulnerability. In order to feel super vulnerable, because obviously giving birth is a very, very vulnerable moment, intimate, intimate. It’s vulnerable, as we say all the time. It’s really, really close to what it is like to have sex with somebody. So if you are going to feel at all awkward about getting in your most primal state, making primal noises, grunting, groaning, ripping your clothes off, whatever it is that might just happen in birth, if you don’t feel like whoever’s in that birth space is going to be relaxed and cool and chill about that, they’re probably not a great person to have there. You want to be able to feel really free to do whatever it is, to move however you need to, to undress however you want to, to make sounds however they come out.

Okay, I did not let my mom in the room during either of my births. I love her dearly. She’s a great mom and grandmother. She’s loving, supportive, positive, caring. I can’t say enough good things about her, but I don’t feel bonded to her in the way that I would need to have someone at my birth like the way I feel about my husband or my identical twin sister. It would almost just be awkward.

I feel more comfortable with my mother-in-law being at my birth to watch him than my own mom. There’s a number of reasons for this, but the biggest is that my mother-in-law is a very calm, low-stress, do-what-you-need-to-do-to-get-the-baby-out type of person, whereas I worry that my mom would have a hard time seeing me in any level of discomfort. I don’t want to feel like I have to put on a performance for her, or that I can’t be fully primal or loud or whatever it needs to be, just so that she doesn’t worry or stress, but I also worry that inviting my mother-in-law and not her would come across like a stab to my mom, which isn’t my intention.

Yeah, that’s a tough one, because that will be difficult for the mother to know that the mother-in-law is welcome at the birth and she isn’t, so that will have to be handled delicately and communicated well. But she’s spot on with her feelings. She said, “I don’t want to feel like I have to perform.” If you feel at all a performance pressure in birth to be quiet when you might want to be loud, covered when you might want to be undressed, polite when you want to be rude, or whatever, you just have to be able to do and say and be whatever you feel in birth. If you’re in any way feeling held back or trying to be polite or performative, that is going to impact your birth in a negative way, not in a helpful way.

Self-consciousness is really, in a sense, an antidote to dilating. It reminds me of Ina May Gaskin’s sphincter law. You can’t have a woman feeling fear, stress, but also humiliation, self-consciousness. So self-consciousness definitely would not work. I do feel for all of them in that situation. I wouldn’t even want to be the mother-in-law who’s welcomed in because I wouldn’t want the mother to resent me, or to feel bad, or to feel like I derived any satisfaction from being chosen in that way. I really feel for all of them in that situation. It’s very hard. If I were the woman in that situation, I would lean strongly toward not even bothering to have the mother-in-law, because I would be so concerned about how that could potentially cause resentment between them. It just depends on the mother’s personality. My mother could completely handle that. She’s totally secure in her role as my mother. But my in-laws were very, very insecure people, and that’s the kind of thing that I could see really hurting some people’s feelings.

Yeah, I think she said she was having the mother-in-law there for her other child, or other children, which is something that you need to do if you’re having a home birth. You need somebody to be with the kids, right?

I do have a woman, in fact, won’t mention her name, but she’s related to, I don’t want to say, a very famous supermodel. It’s the sister-in-law of a very famous supermodel. I feel like even if I say that, it’s potentially saying too much. And she had her mother-in-law and not her mother at her birth, but it was really well justified, because her mother-in-law was a midwife in Europe, and I feel like that’s a really easy shoe-in. Trisha, I think your odds are sky-high for any babies coming in your future. Can you imagine if my girls opt out of me being at their birth?

No, I cannot imagine that. I mean, it could happen.

Yeah, it won’t. That will not happen. I won’t be surprised if my daughter asks you to be at her birth.

Now that would be an honor.

That would be a, well, you were already at her birth. What are we saying? True. Wouldn’t that be interesting?

Amazing, right? That would be amazing.

Yeah, when she saw me in labor, she was just absolutely distraught. She has such a weak stomach, she always has, and it made me uncomfortable knowing that I was making the noises I was making and the ways that I was coping with my labor. I remember being so uncomfortable, like I don’t want people looking at me like they’re worried for me because I’m having an unmedicated birth. The couple of times I looked over at her while I was in labor, she actually looked a little frightened, and when I asked her about that afterwards, she said it was hard to watch her daughter suffer with nothing that she could do about it. I’m pregnant again, and this time my mom eagerly agreed to watch my toddler while I’m in labor. We live in a small house. I don’t want her in the room. I like being just me, my husband, and the midwife, and nobody’s judging me for sounding like a gorilla.

I’ve had three kids now, and she was at my very first birth. My mom is a wonderful lady, so helpful and kind, and I love having her around when I’m sick, to take care of me. She’s had seven unmedicated labors, and so I thought she would be just the perfect doula at my first birth. During the 31-hour excruciating labor that I had with my first, my mom had never seen labor before, and in fact kept saying things along the lines of, “Is this normal? This does not feel normal.” And texting updates to my dad, my in-laws, and various friends, quote-unquote prayer requests, but still, just the feeling of those updates from my labor being passed around were not the feeling that I needed in the moment.

So that’s a really interesting one, because obviously we would assume that a mother who has seven unmedicated births and took care of her naturally, and when she was sick she felt very safe and comfortable with her, that that would be the woman who would also make you feel safe, comfortable, and secure in labor. But for whatever reason, her mother was not that, because it’s too much to ask of most moms. It was too much to ask of my mom. My mom would have done anything I asked. It would have been too much to ask, can you be there and not worry at all? Can you just not worry one little bit? It’s too much to ask of some moms. This woman had seven natural births, so she trusted birth, but she was never with her own daughter in labor, which can make a woman feel like she’s climbing out of her skin, or she was just comparing her births to her daughter’s first birth. If she had had seven babies, and her last few were probably pretty fast, the ones that stick out in her memory most, she probably was analyzing her births. But that’s a good situation. That’s an example where having those boundaries and that communication would be really helpful. Her daughter maybe could have said somewhere in that, or her partner could have said to her mother at some point, maybe you could just go take a walk, or maybe you could go get some food, come back in a few hours. She just needs a little space and get that energy reset.

Yeah. I mean, the interesting thing about birth, though, is yes, you are seeing your child in intensity, not suffering.

I agree. Pain, that’s right. So if they come into it, if they believe that birth is painful and suffering, then they are probably not the right person to have at your birth. But if they see that as strong and powerful, and you can endure it, and this is natural and normal, and this is your physiology, and you are going to get through this, then they’re the good person to have at your birth, right?

All right, let’s go on.

Hey. So I’m calling to comment about mothers in the birth space, and I wanted to share that my mother would have died rather than feel like I was obligated for her to be there. She probably asked me with each of my two pregnancies 100 times if I was sure I wanted her there and if she was sure that she would be an imposition. And I assured her I really, really wanted her there, but she was so careful not to impose. My mother has always been that way. My parents are that way. My dad didn’t come to meet our newborn baby because he was so worried that it would be an imposition. I just feel like that’s not something I hear very often, but I was so delighted to have my mother there, obviously because I wanted her there, but also because she did such an amazing job of truly being in the space as an observer without having any expectations. I think that’s what made her such a great attendant at my birth, is that she had no expectations over being there. She was simply there to serve me however I needed that.

We haven’t heard that as a reason yet. I like that she had no expectations. Now, she probably had some deep down, but let them be known. When do we not have expectations, right? Isn’t that the goal? If we could all just walk around with zero expectations, we would be totally peaceful, calm, happy, anxious-free people. But that’s not reality.

I think not acting on the expectation is what matters. Again, that’s what boundaries are all about. They’re not about how you feel. They’re about how you act. That’s one of the many things that’s required in order for this dynamic to work. That’s something else that would have worked fine with my mom. I really think for me, it came down to her being able to totally trust birth and being able to watch me being very vocal because I already know that part was really hard for her, so it’s pretty cool to hear when mothers can handle that. I know that’ll be hard, maybe not for you, but I know that it’ll be a lot of internal work for me to trust, despite all of my years in this work and having experienced it myself. I know it’ll be another world being with my own child. Let’s go on to the next.

The biggest decision for me, where I decided to have her attend my daughter at my first birth, was I asked myself if she would add oxytocin. I said, “Would you bring me more oxytocin?” And I asked my body, not my brain, and my body said yes. I asked her to play with my hair and rub my back, which is something she did when I was a kid, and it always calmed me down. So I asked her to take that role. I was very clear with my mom and sister that they could bring love and peace and trust into the room, and that was it. I’m so grateful that I ultimately made that choice. It was beautiful having her there, and she just eight months ago attended my second home birth. This one was actually a free birth, so just me, my husband, my mom, my sisters, and my daughter. Having her there grounded me, and I’m just so grateful that she could be part of that story. She had never witnessed a home birth before, so she got to see how peaceful the birth could be.

I love what she said. “I asked my body, not my brain.” That will always tell you everything. How does something feel in your body, not in your head?

Yeah, and I also liked the part where she brought her and her mother back to how the mother used to comfort her. That felt familiar to me. That felt like something sweet, like, can you play with my hair or scratch my back or do the things you did to me before? Because that would come naturally to a mother. I always say the hardest part about raising children, this is what I like to say, is the hardest part is that you don’t get to give them all the affection toward them. You’re constantly feeling, when they’re little, they can walk past you in the kitchen, you can stop them and squeeze them and just kiss them ten times and just get your fill all the time. But as they get older and older and develop healthy boundaries of separation, you have to restrain yourself, essentially. I look at my children all the time, especially my son, because my daughter allows me a little bit more. But almost anytime I’m around my son, I just want to put my arms around him and kiss him again, and I have to respect his boundaries with that. When the time is right for him to be in that kind of place and to be able to say to your mother, just love me and nurture me the way you used to when I was young, is kind of a mother’s dream, and it tells her how to be. She doesn’t have to be a doula. She can just be your mother.

My 14-year-old son walked up to me in the kitchen the other day, and I was just cooking dinner or something like that, and he just walked up to me and put his arms around me and leaned into my chest and hugged me for like three solid minutes. I was wanting to start crying.

That’s a long hug.

Yeah. He just, well, yeah, so yes, I did. Everything you said is true, everything you said is true. And then you just sometimes have those little breakthrough moments, or he just, whatever he needed in that moment. But yes, what she described is creating that sense of safety and comfort that is going to make your oxytocin go wild, and that is what we want now. She also needs to be able to feel comfortable in the moment when her mother starts rubbing her hair, and she’s like, enough of that. In transition, she might want to be able to say, “Don’t touch me anymore.” You’ve got to be able to do that too.

That’s true. I did not want, nor did I have my mom at either of my births, and the reason was because I am in a place with my mother right now that she is not a safe space for me, and I wanted to feel as safe as possible in my birth, so that I could have little to no interventions. I’m really glad I stuck to my guns and didn’t have her there. Do I feel a little guilty when I see other people have their mothers at their birth? Yes. And I do truly mourn the fact that I don’t have that relationship with my mom any longer, but she is not my safe base, and I believe that truly helped provide a safe environment for me to not have her at any of my births.

That right there is an example of coming into your own, of growing up, of becoming an adult, of making your own decisions, of recognizing this is not good for me, and I’m not going to do it out of a sense of obligation. I’m going to say no because I know that this is what’s best for me. That’s mature.

Yeah, when I was listening to that and she was saying all those things, I was thinking compliments toward her mom. For whatever she said about not wanting her mom there, I was like, kudos to her mom for raising a real adult woman who, unapologetically, despite a little wave of guilt, did what she needed to do and what was right for her, because those are the children we want to raise, of course. Not the people-pleasing, not the ones who are going to stay silent when they need something different from us or anyone else. So yeah, kudos to both of them, one for being that woman and the other for raising that woman.

I’m just calling in regard to having your mother at your birth, and I did not have my mother at my birth. However, I did have my mother-in-law at my birth, and it was completely unplanned. I actually planned to give birth at a birthing center, and my water broke at home. We were an hour away from the birthing center, and after my water broke, I just knew that I was going to have this baby at home. I had called my mother-in-law to come get my toddler. She lived 30 minutes away. Luckily, she came right in time to catch my second baby, literally the minute that I was crowning. My mother-in-law walked in, and I was like, “Get back there.” At first she thought I was saying, like, get away from me. But I was like, no, get back there, because my baby’s about to pop out. She went back there, and she’s like, “Oh my gosh, her head is out.” She just felt so blessed to be able to be a part of that, and I’m just really glad that we share that. I know a lot of women don’t have good relationships with their mother-in-laws, but I have a really great one with mine, and now we just have this special bond together because she literally caught my baby. So I’m really glad that she was there. I love your guys’ show so much. Thank you.

I love that she just knew that she was going to stay home and have her baby. She was planning a birth center birth, and she’s like, nope, having it here.

And her mother-in-law thought she was screaming, “Get back there,” go back to the other room.

Get back there and catch my baby.

Get back there and catch my baby.

Okay, so I thought it might be fun to share a few scripts of what you can say to your mother or mother-in-law, or anyone really, who you might need to have a difficult conversation with about whether or not they’re going to be at your birth.

Cool. I didn’t know you came prepared with that. I was just going to leave the episode with, just scream, “Get back there,” and either point to the room or point to the back of your body if you’re on your hands and knees. Okay, so what suggestions did you come up with?

Okay, so I’ll give you a couple different scripts you can say, and you can, of course, modify this however you want, but this is just a guideline. “Mom, I’ve been really thinking about what I’ll need during labor to feel the most calm and safe. I’ve realized I need a very quiet, low-pressure space so I can fully go into it, and because of that, I’ve decided to keep the birth really private with just so-and-so, partner, doula, whatever. Please understand this isn’t at all about you. It’s just about how I function in really intense and vulnerable moments. I love you, and I really want you to be part of this in a way that feels best for both of us.”

I could never have said any of that to my mom. I know. It feels too political. I was sincere. I just said, “I don’t want it to be hard for you, and I don’t want to have to worry about you when I’m in labor.” And she was just like, “I completely understand. Where do you want me?” And I said basically very close, one room away all the time. But yeah, this, I would be a little embarrassed if someone was like, “I just need to feel calm and safe and I love you.” As the mother, I’d be like, yeah, I know you love me. This isn’t a question of love, yeah?

Well, you can expand, and it depends on the mother.

It depends on what your relationship needs. But my policy in life, I really believe this, and it is the advice I’m always giving, just say the truth, and usually that’s the kindest and the easiest.

“I don’t like you, and you make me feel uncomfortable.”

Well, if you don’t like your mother, I can’t help you. I don’t have advice for that. But I just say, find your real reason. Yes, just say it.

Yes, but you have to remind her that you love her.

I don’t know. I just feel like, obviously, I still obviously love you.

It really depends on your relationship with your mom. There are probably many daughters out there who have not said “I love you” to their mom in many, many years. Maybe this is a moment you want to. Maybe it’s a moment you don’t want to. You can take that out of the script, but sometimes people just need a little guidance on how to get their feelings out.

You’re right. I’m just having fun with you. It does come down to the relationship every time, but just basically find the truth. It’s easy for half of these women who declined, maybe not half, but it seemed like a lot, who were saying, “I don’t want to worry about her.” That’s readily understandable to most mothers, I would think. Okay, what else do you have there?

So if you have a mom who might take it really personally, you can say something like, “I need to share this with you, and I hope you can understand where I’m coming from. I’ve learned about myself that during really intense moments, I tend to go inward, and having more people around me makes that harder for me. So for the birth, I am keeping this very small. It doesn’t change how I feel about you or whether or not I actually want you involved. It just helps me feel safe and connected and calm in my body, which is the most important thing for me to have a safe labor.” If you have a mother or mother-in-law who needs very firm boundaries, no fluff, you can say, “I need to tell you that I’ve made a decision about my birth, and this is very important for me, physically and emotionally. I am only going to have John at my birth.”

Your best friend John, your brother John, is going to be coming to my birth? Who’s John?

The husband.

I met a few couples who never told their moms when labor began, because they thought she’d book it to their home or to the birthing center. So they were always joking like they were going to say, “Oh, the baby came so fast,” but they really didn’t want her there, and that’s how they managed it.

I had another thought on a mom who doesn’t respect boundaries, right?

Oh, I once advised a couple, I don’t remember the situation, but this is coming back to me, where I said, because sometimes the women are really afraid of hurting their moms. And I understand that. If some moms are super sensitive, I understand not wanting to hurt someone you love, and if she’s very sensitive, it’s delicate. I do understand that. So you can’t always be totally honest, I guess, the way I recommend, and the way that works for me in my relationships. But I did suggest to this couple that you can say, “Look, it’s very recommended by my midwife, by my childbirth educator, it is recommended to have as few people as possible at birth. There are a few reasons for that, and I’ve just been thinking about it, and I think that feels right to me. So right now, I’m going to default to having as few as possible, and I’ll let you know if I have a change.”

Well, that’s clear. “As few people as possible.”

I had to say that to a doula who offered to attend my birth for free. I was so excited at first, and I ended up having to contact her. It was very difficult because I didn’t want to hurt her feelings, especially because she offered to do it for free. What could I say? It literally came down to not wanting her there. I think I used language like that. I decided I’ve opted for as few people as possible, and she, of course, respected that.

So there’s also the option of coming to a middle ground. It doesn’t have to be, “No, you can’t be part of this in any way, shape, or form.”

It can also be like, you can—

Be there when the head comes out. What’s the middle ground?

Trisha, the middle ground is you can be in the kitchen.

No, maybe in the house, but not in the room.

The middle ground is you can be sitting in the living room watching birth videos on your phone while I’m in the bedroom giving birth.

You can hear me through the floor. Maybe she’s in the house, but not in the room. That is possible, maybe. Or maybe you don’t even want her there in the first hour or two after birth. You can say, “Once the baby’s here, I really would like you in the early postpartum, and I would like you to be present with me as much as possible in the early days, but we’re just going to wait until after the baby is here.” Or maybe she comes for early labor support, and you tell her that when things get intense and I’m going to be more vulnerable, it would be more comfortable for me if you could just be next door or down the street or wherever she lives and come back after the baby’s born. If you can find some role for her that feels comfortable for you, then that’s usually better than just being like, “I don’t want you part of this in any way,” right? They don’t have to be there for all of it. If they can find some role, they just want to help. Your mom just wants to help. So if you can define that role, you get to decide what that is, and you don’t owe any part of your birth to your mother or your mother-in-law.

Yeah, the main thing I have told women over the years is, if you have your mother at your birth, make sure she’s there for your sake and not for her sake, because sometimes the grandmothers-to-be are very sentimental, and they want to be able to say they were at the birth. Sometimes women feel a little pressured. Sometimes the mothers presume they will be. But the default is that she won’t be there. The default is that your provider will be there, and your husband and your partner will be there. It’s not the default that your mom will be there, or even that your own sister or best friend would be there. This is an exception to the rule, I would say. So just take heart and ask yourself, for whose sake is it? If it’s expressly for your sake, then it’s a consideration. But do make sure she’s okay with a change of plan.

That was great. It was really, really nice to hear all those stories. I enjoyed that so much, all the different perspectives. Hopefully that was nice for everyone to listen to. This applies, of course, to anyone, not just your mother. It applies to any close female in your life, the friend who might expect she’ll be there, the sister that you have.

Yeah, exactly. So thanks to the women who called in with us. It was a conversation we’ve been wanting to have for a long time. 

Thank you for joining us at the Down To Birth Show. You can reach us @downtobirthshow on Instagram or email us at Contact@DownToBirthShow.com. All of Cynthia’s classes and Trisha’s breastfeeding services are offered live online, serving women and couples everywhere. Please remember this information is made available to you for educational and informational purposes only. It is in no way a substitute for medical advice. For our full disclaimer visit downtobirthshow.com/disclaimer. Thanks for tuning in, and as always, hear everyone and listen to yourself.