#377 | Protecting Your Baby From EMFs: Practical Ways to Reduce Exposure

In today's episode, we invited back Thaddeus Owen and Heidi Syme of DreamWalkerz, this time focusing on electromagnetic fields (EMFs), wireless technology, and the growing questions many families have about how modern environments can affect health.

We discuss the difference between naturally occurring and man-made electromagnetic fields, the research that has fueled concern about wireless technologies, and why this topic has become increasingly relevant as our homes fill with Wi-Fi networks, smartphones, Bluetooth devices, smart appliances, and baby monitors.

Thaddeus and Heidi share their perspective on practical ways families can reduce exposure without becoming overwhelmed, including simple changes related to device use, distance, sleep environments, and home technology. We also discuss grounding, time outdoors, and the role of nature in supporting overall well-being, as the best ways to reduce these exposures.

Topics discussed:

• What electromagnetic fields are and how they occur in nature
 • The difference between native and non-native EMFs
 • Research on wireless technology and biological effects
 • Cell phones, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and baby monitors
 • EMFs and fertility concerns
 • Grounding and earthing practices
 • Why sleep environments matter
 • Common household sources of EMF exposure
 • Practical ways to reduce exposure without fear or perfectionism
 • The importance of spending time outdoors and connecting with nature

As with so many topics we cover, the goal isn't fear. It's awareness, thoughtful decision-making, and finding an approach that works for your family.

#330 | Sleep Like a Baby: The Impact of Melatonin, Blue Light, and Sunrise with DreamWalkerz

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Transcript

Well, hello everybody. It's Thaddeus Owen and Heidi Syme. We are back here. You'll might remember us from episode 330 where we talked about circadian rhythm, sleep, and light, and how light is actually a drug to our biology, and that having nature's light always beats modern processed junk led lighting. Today we're going to talk about something else that we're really passionate about in the work that we do. So we run a company focused on circadian lighting and blue light blocking glasses, but we also educate people all over the world. And this year we have a really big conference where I'll be a keynote speaker at the Wise Traditions Conference in DC in October of 2026 talking about this same subject to families, and that is electromagnetic fields. So, electromagnetic fields are another form of light, they are invisible light, and they don't have a smell, they don't have a taste, we can't usually sense these fields, but they have a definitive impact on our biology, and in many cases, with modern manufactured electromagnetic fields, they can have a negative impact on our biology, and most of us don't even know it, and we're around these things all the time, so we love educating people around what electromagnetic fields are, which ones are around us all the time in our modern environments, how to stay safe from the ones that could be harming us, and how to make use of the ones that heal us.

And I'll add what moms and new moms and children should know about EMF specifically, because I, I feel that women are more sensitive to light, they're more sensitive to EMF, and you guys, a lot of the studies are tested on men, they're not even testing this stuff on women, and let alone children. So, really, our message is to protect our families.

So, can you explain what an electromagnetic field is, and is it naturally occurring, and the difference between naturally occurring electromagnetic fields and manufactured EMFs.

Most people, when they hear EMFs, they think of danger, harm, and man-made, but an EMF, or an electromagnetic field, is natural, so the sun is the largest electromagnetic emitter in our world, and it emits electromagnetic fields in many wavelengths and frequencies. So, sunlight is an electromagnetic field, it's a visible form of electromagnetics, and we know that there's healing forms of sunlight, infrared and red light people are buying these infrared and red light panels for home therapy, or they go, I don't know, to the gym, and they have a red light panel, and they use it to heal and do all sorts of things. Every professional sports team now has them, all of their athletes have to use them because they work so well. So, we know that some electromagnetic fields are absolutely healing. There's lots of science behind it. Most of those fields are from nature. Nature has a magnetic field that comes from the earth, and it's more prevalent during the night time. So, at night, when we sleep, the earth's magnetic field is healing our body. That is a natural electromagnetic field that our biology is designed to make use of just like sunlight, our biology, as we talked about in episode 330 We're designed to utilize sunlight to help produce hormones to help our body understand when it's time to reproduce. A lot of infertility issues are the fact of looking at too much synthetic processed blue light without the hormone inducing effect of sunlight, but also putting then a man-made electromagnetic field onto our body. We call these things that we're recording on laptops and iPads, and they sit on your lap, and in fact, that's where the reproductive organs are, and the man-made electromagnetic fields are not designed with our health and our biology in mind. They're designed for us to communicate invisibly with the rest of the world, and unfortunately, the specific wavelengths and frequencies that were used in most man-made electromagnetic fields are doing harm. And we can talk about some of the studies, there's 5500 so 5500 peer-reviewed published studies since the 1800s showing that man-made electromagnetic fields have biological impact, and that even includes electrification in our homes, so when we moved from nature to electrify our homes back in the early 1900s That's when electromagnetic fields became prevalent. We installed telegraph, which was some wireless transmission of information through the air. We installed radios, we installed sonar and radar for the mill. Military and then we started electrifying the homes and all of these things have electromagnetic fields associated with them and some of them have more effect on the body than others and what we do is educate people on you know which ones are the most concerning to you how can you protect yourself what are they actually doing to us and then which ones are more natural and healing

well, and and I think that there's a couple terms that we like to throw around with the EMFs, you guys, and it's native EMF and non-native EMF. So, what that is just explained to you, basically, and if you think about the word like native, if it's native, it's nature, right, and if it's non-native, it's man-made, so the man-made frequencies are the ones that we should be looking at, and looking at the biological effect, and what he said is 5500 peer-reviewed studies, I mean, that's a, that's a huge number, a lot of people don't even know that this, this was our government, too, this was the NIH, right,

so the study that Heidi's referring to is important for your audience to know, and you all to be aware of. When we think of EMFs, a lot of people just think of cell phones or Wi-Fi, but you know it's the electric fields, it's a lot of other things. So, at any second going through your body right now, wherever you sit, are radio waves with a lot of information, and your body tries to read that, and it gets a little confused, because we're designed to read electromagnetic information from the sun and from nature and the magnetic field. But think about, you can tune your radio to any station right now: 93 fm, 94 fm, 95 ft, and there's something different on every one of those stations, because it's coming wirelessly through the air with all that information to your radio, but if you put your radio behind your back or in front of you, it still picks up the station, which means those waves are passing through your body. So all of these waves are going through us all the time, and what's happened is we went from like a couple people in the military having cellular communication technology to every single person in the world, essentially having a piece of microwave technology in their pocket, sending these microwaves through everybody's body, and so the EPA and the National Institute of Health back in the 1990s said, like, hey, there's a lot of people starting to get cell phones, do you think that they could be harmful, because there's a lot of these studies the military, US military, has done in the late 1800s on radar and sonar, and then the early 1900s on different technologies they're using in their ships, the navy ships, and people are getting harmed from it. They wanted to study it, so the National Institute of Health said, "Let's study whether cell phones with microwave radiation coming out of them could be harmful, so in 1999 they commissioned a 14 year study that cost $25 million We, the US government, hired the best cancer scientists in the world to run the study. The scientists that have done all the carcinogenic studies on lots of other stuff, they are world famous. They ran the study, and at the end of the 14 years, silence, they never published the study, and so two years later, in about 2016 through the Freedom of Information Act, the US government was forced to publish the study on cell phones in the two and 3g range, and you can still go to nih.gov or ntp.gov National Toxicology Program, or National Institute of Health. You can type in NTP cell phone study. It will show you as the very top result of the study is that there was clear evidence, which is the highest level of evidence that something causes cancer. Clear evidence that cell phones can cause brain tumors. That's the highest level of scientific evidence you can get that something causes cancer. And it was definitive that cell phones cause cancer. Our own government did it. They tried not to publish the report, but it is now publicly available for anybody to see, and it should give people that are on their cell phones all the time, especially around their kids and their babies. A little bit of pause to think about, should we be doing this as much as we are, or is there a safer way to utilize these modern devices?

So, can I just ask you about, again, about a little bit about the EMF, the nature of the EMF, the native versus the non-native? Is the risk is the problem with the non-native that we are surrounded by so much more EMFs or higher frequency, or is it something about the way the non-native EMFs are created, because obviously natural EMFs are built to tolerate that, we're not getting sick and getting cancer from native EMF, so what's the difference?

So number one, we're definitely being exposed to more and different electromagnetic fields than ever before. So one study showed that in 19. 1950 we are exposed to one quintillion times less microwaves than today. A quintillion is a one with 18 zeros after the one, that's how much microwave radiation per second we're exposed to today than in 1950 So, the sun, the way that the sun and the earth work is that the sun gives off all electromagnetic fields, it gives off x-rays, gamma rays, microwaves, radio waves, all of those things come from the sun, but most of them never reach the earth, they never reach our bodies, so our bodies biologically, whether you believe in evolution or you don't believe in evolution, we were not designed to make use of the waves that never hit earth. So, if microwaves never made it to earth and x-rays never made it to earth, we're not designed to deal with them. But now we're exposed to x-rays all the time in the medical industry, and we know that those are very damaging, even though they're quote unquote natural. When we expose ourselves to them unnaturally, it becomes a stress that the body isn't designed to eliminate. Same with microwaves, our body can take a little bit of microwave radiation, but because of the cell towers, the Wi-Fi, the Bluetooth, and the cell phones that everyone's carrying, we're exposed to so much microwave radiation. What happens is this has been studied by a number of university professors from the US and outside the US. They found three or four things that are happening in the body. So one of the professors is Dr. Robert O. Becker from Syracuse University, and he discovered the effects of EMF fields back in the 1970s He was a medical doctor and a researcher at Syracuse University, and what he found is even like power lines and electric fields had these stress effects on the body, but microwave radiation, what it does is it gets into the cell and floods the cell with calcium, and it floods the cell with so much calcium that the body can't react to that much calcium and clean it up, and it acts as a free radical that can then damage the DNA in the cell. So, a lot of the US government and modern agencies that regulate cell phones, which is only the FCC, Federal Communications Commission, is the only safety regulator of microwave radiation in the United States. It's made up of five people, and none of them are a scientist or a doctor.

They're all lawyers.

It changes every once in a while when they vote, but the last, last we looked, they were all attorneys, and most of them came directly from the cell phone industry, and they regulate the safety of cell phones. They're the only people that can do it.

We don't want to, like, alarm people and scare people or anything, because being scared and all that, it's like stressing about it is worse, right? But being aware, and like with everything that Thaddeus says, I'm always the person that comes back in and says, "But listen, like, do what you can, you know what I mean? Don't freak out about. So I just want to make sure we, you know, keep our service systems intact.

I have a question. So we know that these non-native EMFs interfere with biology, and you already alluded a little bit to how it can impact fertility. Can you please list the key ways it does impact biology?

The very first thing that was discovered about electromagnetic fields and how they interact with biology is they cause a stress response. Every individual body reacts differently to stress, so some people, when they're under a lot of stress, are going to get migraines. Some people are going to get cancer. Potentially, people can develop heart disease. All sorts of things can happen under stressful circumstances. And we know the number one complaint that people come to the medical doctors for in today's medicine is stress-related injury or disease, so Dr. Robert O. Becker, Syracuse University discovered that electromagnetic fields, whether it's microwaves, electric fields, or magnetic fields, cause a stress response in the body, and what he discovered is that stress response has different pathways of showing itself physically or mentally to each individual based on what you're susceptible to, so he wrote papers about this. He has a book called The Body Electric and another book called Cross Currents, and he was like the top witness in all the Senate trials back in the 70s and 80s around these high tension power lines harming farm animals and causing leukemia in children, and the leukemia was from high magnetic fields from these high tension power lines. The magnetic field causing a stress in the body that can cause childhood leukemia. And just a quick example, we found a large magnetic field in our home when we tested the magnetic field, and it was like off the charts high, I couldn't believe it. So I called the power company, and this was like eight years ago. This is modern times, and it was of the range that can cause leukemia based on the studies, so you can look up like childhood leukemia and magnetic fields. So I called the power company, they didn't believe us, but they came over to. Investigate, they took a reading, and they were really friendly to us. But after the reading, they stopped talking to us. They turned around and walked out the door. They came back with a truck, cut our power, and rewired our house, so they knew how dangerous this was. They had to immediately stop communicating and not have any more communication and rewire our house because we had this meter, a magnetic meter that I was walking around the house with, just to check readings, and I was like, this is high, it was so high, they no cost, no other communication, they just completely retained the wiring,

and they wouldn't talk to us,

really

bizarre.

Okay, so, so number one, the other interesting thing, there's another book called Going Somewhere, and Going Somewhere is written by Dr. Andrew Moreno. He's a lawyer and a researcher, PhD, also Syracuse University, was a student of Robert O'Becker's, wanted to learn more about electromagnetic fields, so he became an attorney also to sue the power companies over these high tension power lines, and he wrote a book called Going Somewhere about the effects of electromagnetic frequencies, and what he said is because of the stress response, lots of different things in the body can manifest, so he was publishing papers, but the electric power industry and the cell phone industry were publishing papers through other universities showing that there were no stress responses from these fields, and Marino did not believe them, so he actually went to those universities, talked to the researchers, they were friends, and he's like, "Guys, they were all guys at that time, so I'm saying, "Guys, he said, "How can you not be showing stress? Like, we've done this test so many times, this is impossible. And he said, 'Can I see your laboratory setup? And what he found is they ran this test of stress on rats at least 10 times, and they threw away the results because they were being paid by the electric power companies to show positive results that no stress occurred. What was happening is the rats that were exposed to electromagnetic fields showed signs of stress, which then led to various diseases, and they didn't want to show that, because the results would be thrown away by the electric company. So, what they did is they lowered the cage of the animals exposed to the MF and not exposed to the MF so much that the animals had to crawl on their bellies to move and get food, so they were all stressed all the time, and therefore there was no difference in stress response from the control animal to the EMF animal. So, number one, stress response. Number two, calcium channel flooding. Calcium is a signal molecule, and it's a free radical, when it's in a special state in the body, it is supposed to enter the cell and signal as a free radical that something's happening, and then the body uses antioxidant to quench the free radical calcium, but what electromagnetic fields do from microwaves, like cell phones, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth, is it floods so much calcium in the cell that the cell cannot quench the calcium, and it becomes damaging to DNA. When you damage DNA in a cell, depending on where that cell resides, you can come up with all sorts of modern, what we call modern industrial disc ease. So, I'm not a medical doctor, I'm just reporting what the literature says and what the researchers say happens,

Thaddeus, may I just interrupt to say, if you are a medical doctor, you'd know a lot less about this than you

do.

That's unfortunate. Although there are a few, so I've met,

of course, there are a few, but it would be 1000s of hours of research to read the things you read. They would have to be as extraordinary and as driven, you know, as this qualifier that so many experts say, well, I'm not a medical doctor. I don't know where we got this idea as a society that medical doctors, just by default, know everything, and the rest of us have to keep clamoring to say, but I'm not a medical doctor, and maybe you know the experts I've learned from in my life, and there have been many, I don't know how few were medical doctors among them, but anyway, I didn't mean to interrupt, but I, I sometimes feel the need to say that clearly you are an expert in this.

I talked to many medical doctors and helped them understand the issue, but I've also been trained by a neurosurgeon in this concept, who has spent 10,000 or more hours studying as a neurosurgeon. He integrated these techniques into his practice, so he would, he would test people's reduction oxidation capacity in their cells, their mitochondria, before putting them through surgery, and literally, if they were exposed to too much EMF in their home, he would write a prescription. This is, and he shows it, he's kind of photos of it. His prescription is, get outside barefoot at the sunrise every single day, turn off your Wi-Fi when you go to bed. Come back in two weeks, and we'll test your redox again to see if you're ready for surgery. And what he found is he had the fewest post-surgery complications of any medical doctor in his system by doing this practice,

and he wouldn't operate on them if. They didn't listen if their redox was too high. He's like, "You didn't listen to me, I'm not going to operate on you,

because the body was already under too much stress to tolerate. So, tell us, why the going outside barefoot in the morning and putting your feet in the earth and looking up at the sky actually reduces the burden of EMF exposure.

So, think about when you were a kid, or maybe as an adult, and you're walking across a carpeted room, and then you touch somebody, and you can shock them. That's building up positive energy in the body, static - that we call it static electricity, but it's building up of a charge in the body, and that positive charge is what we're discharging when we shock somebody. That positive charge is considered inflammatory, so we know that electromagnetic fields not only cause this calcium to flood into a cell, they cause stress, but it causes an accumulation of charges that are associated with inflammation. Inflammation, we also know, is associated with lots of states of disease. So, when we're around these devices all the time, whether it's electric fields or Wi-Fi, your Bluetooth, your AirPods that you're wearing, not that you're wearing them, but people wear when you're wearing these things, your body is building up a charge in it, a positive charge that's inflammatory, and we walk around insulated, we wear rubber-soled shoes, we drive in rubber-tired cars that are insulated. Our homes are made of wood that's no longer living and therefore is insulating. It's not conductive, so we can't conduct away these charges. So our body builds up more and more and more charge during the day as we move from electric field to magnetic field to microwave field when we take off our shoes, you'll notice everyone will notice that we have sweat ducts on our feet and our hands. Be like, why do I have to sweat for my feet? That seems really annoying. Well, water is very conductive, and so when we step outside with our bare feet, our sweat glands are firing. I learned this. I worked for Procter and Gamble, really big company in deodorants and antiperspirants, and we used to make antiperspirants to block your sweat ducts, and all of your sweat ducks, even if you're not like physically sweating, you can't see sweat, your sweat is still coming out of your pores and sucking back in all day long, and that's because we want to keep our skin conductive to read our environment naturally, and so what we did in antiperspirants, which being an antiperspirant, that when you release some of that sweat and suck it in, it sucks in a polymer, a metal polymer. It was like aluminum zirconium trichloral hydrax glide was the name of the polymer, and it sucks that into your sweat gland, and then the water polymerizes it, so it grows and blocks your sweat duct. So, regardless, to say, don't use those things if you don't have to. I know every.. it was odd, the formulation chemist at Procter and Gamble did not wear deodorant and had a person. Go figure. Really, wait, for

real, that's really true.

I spent.. I spent three years working at Procter and Gamble as a research scientist, and I was developing the manufacturing processes for Secret Sure and Old Spice, the formulators did not wear anniversaries, and I'm like, guys, what's the deal here? And they're like, do you know what this does inside your body? I'm like, what are we doing here?

So he quit.

I left. Yes, I left and went to work for 10 years in the pharmaceutical industry before he got smart.

Really, wow. So,

should we all be discharging our EMFs at the end of the day, is it a good idea to go out and ground yourself before bed?

So, I absolutely, Trisha, I would say before bed, and as soon as you wake up, because we're sleeping in an insulated chamber in our bedrooms, re-accumulating EMFs while we sleep. We tell people to focus. If you can focus anywhere for light and EMF, it's always focused on your bedroom, because that's where we heal, is while we sleep. So, when you wake up, or before you go to bed, take your shoes off, get outside on the grass, you can only, we call it grounding or earthing, and what it's doing is the, your, your feet have this little bit of sweat conducting the positive charge into the ground, positive charges are attracted to negative charge, and the earth is the largest source of negative charge, or electrons. So we step on the earth, we discharge the positive energy we've built up all day or all night into the earth, and we absorb free of charge electrons, negative charges, and if we think about how the body works from a mitochondrial standpoint, mitochondria, they're said to be the energy centers of the body, and we're like, we eat carbs, fat, and protein, and then we feed our mitochondria to make ATP, or energy, that's not true, we eat carbs, fat, and protein, and we break it down to an electron, and it's called the electron transport chain in the mitochondria to make energy. So, if you get free electrons from standing barefoot on the earth, you don't have to eat food, and you still get energy to run your body to detox, to get rid of inflammation, and to heal without any food input. Not that you can run 100% Of your body on free electrons from the earth, but I think there's at least one paper that says you can run up to 1/3 of your energy needs for the day by standing barefoot on the earth for 15 minutes. Well,

I've seen this on social media lately, these people who are on like energy diets, where they're not eating food and they're just literally getting their calories or their energy from the earth sounds very extreme, and well,

early humans, early humans had to survive in part from this. They didn't have even a fracture,

really, the

access to food, right?

Fascinating.

That is fascinating.

Just so I'm going to share a little personal story, because there was a time in my life when I was under a lot of stress, I was really sleep deprived, and I can't remember if it was after my second or third, because I was really sleep deprived after both, but at one point I think it was after my second, it was really, really bad, like, like I hardly could function, and I would sometimes, in the middle of the day, in the middle of my work day, when I was feeling so stressed that I thought I was, might just collapse. I would go outside in the winter, take my shoes off, my socks off, and I would stand with my back up against a tree and my feet in the ground in the snow. I didn't care. It was the only thing that got me through the day. It was like the only thing that would calm me down, and I'll calm my nervous system down enough to continue on with the day, so this is real. Like, I know, I mean, I physically felt the change. It was the only thing. There was no pill that I was going to take. There was no supplement. It was my back against a tree and my feet in the earth.

Absolutely,

really powerful.

Tree hugging is a thing. I mean, people think, right, hippie woo woo stuff, but you're actually getting, we, that's how we ground in the winter. We live in the north, in Wisconsin, and that's how we ground in the winter. I, I'll go touch every tree I can. I talk to the trees, but, and you guys, that's why people, when they, when they go to the beach, people take vacations. You go to the beach, the beach in the sand is the best electron transport on the planet, right? It's the, it's the perfect conductive situation that your feet are gaining all these electrons, that's why when people go to vacation they gravitate like by instinct to those places, isn't that interesting? And then they come home, they're like, "Oh, why do I feel so good? Duh, because you're in the, in the sand, your feet on the sand, and you're in the sunlight, like getting all of it. So

that's also why, when I, when I go on vacation, I don't even want to put a towel under me. I want to lay directly on the sand. I don't care that I'm going to get sand in my hair, and you know, like a little sand in places I might not want it, but it's so worth it, because it feels so much more restorative like that.

Can I ask for the details here? So, a couple of questions. One question that I want to know is, I understand the value of the feet, the sweat glands, even if we don't think our feet are sweating, they're always releasing enough moisture to draw in those electrons. But it, when it is freaking cold outside, it sounds great. Right now, it's a beautiful day, and I'm like, yeah, I could do this all winter. I won't. Is it? Is it also beneficial to literally place your palms on the earth on a tree? Is that the same thing? And then my second question is, what are all the sources that will do this for us? Isn't it like everything but asphalt? Like, isn't slate okay? And is brick okay? But is it not everything but asphalt? So, can you tell us? I know sand is the best, grass is great. Yeah, so can you talk about that?

Dewey grass is even better. So, right, that's why foreignine, if it's dewy, that's that's like the best. When I see dewy grass in the spring, I'm like, oh yeah, Ali, you know, you can use that as a facial too. Like, I love a dew, like, oh yeah, you take the dew, it's structured water, and so you're putting that structured water on your skin. Your skin loves it, like people, people try to put all this stuff on their faces for, like, a dewy, you know, finish. I actually use, do

run your hands through the grass, get them, yes, and dewy wet, and then cover your face in it.

Make sure it wasn't sprayed with

chemicals. Yeah, we, I mean, don't do that in places where you know that they're spraying, or maybe mindful if there's a lot of dogs in that area, that's gross. But yeah,

does it count if any part of your body touches the ground, palms in the winter? If you don't want to take off your, if you don't want to go hardcore like Trisha and put feet in the snow,

we have

that's the Sphinx pose, like you can go down in that neurosurgeon that Daddy was talking about earlier, he actually recommends that you get all of your.. I'm showing people on the video, your elbow all the way to your, to your tips of your fingers down on the ground, like in a yoga pose that you would be in Sphinx pose, if it's dewy ground, that way you're, you're really getting a lot more. So that's a.. that's a fun way.

Yeah, let's talk about the winter.

Oh, in the winter, and I'll continue

the so Doctor Cruz says, like, be like the Sphinx. So, you have all four, all four extremities on the ground, hands and feet, and you face this, the rising sun in the east, which is what the Sphinx does. Yeah, so that it, so in the winter, what are the strategies, right? How. Where we live in Wisconsin, when it gets 30 below zero, nobody's going to stand outside and bare feet. So, so what do we

do? Like one second. Yeah,

exactly. So, can you put your hands on the ground? Definitely. But even at 20 below, 10 below, that gets uncomfortable very quickly. So, one thing that we've noticed since 1950 we've insulated our shoes, but prior to 1950 we did not. You could be wearing grounding shoes, which existed everywhere before 1950 rarely, and didn't exist today until recently. I've been working with companies that sell barefoot shoes. I like to wear barefoot shoes, notice Heidi, but none of them were grounding. They were still insulating. I'm like, why can't you guys make barefoot shoes so we can ground and still wear boots or shoes and be conductive to the earth? And they said, we've tried, the soles fall apart, it just doesn't work well. Heidi's now wearing a pair of barefoot grounded shoes,

and they're really cute.

So, in the winter, your strategy is multiple phase you can wear grounded boots or shoes, you can go to Amazon. So, here's, here's her on the video, she's showing you her grounded shoes, they're called grounds. We don't have any affiliation with any companies.

These are the two pads that are conductive, and then they have a cork sole,

so they have a sole, and then that's conductive, and it conducts through to your feet, so you can be grounded while wearing shoes. There's numerous strategies in the summer and winter, and you can't ground on everything. So, as you said, Cynthia, in the winter, let's just say you can have grounded shoes. You can go to Amazon for 10 bucks, you can buy static heel straps. Static heel straps are what my friends that worked in micro electronics to build printed circuit boards, they have to be grounded, so they don't create static electricity and fry the circuit board, so they have to put these heel straps on their shoes to ground themselves in the fabrication plant. Well, if they can ground you in the fabrication plant, they can ground you outside, and they're 10 bucks, so you can go to Amazon and pick up static heel straps, and you just put them on the outside of your boot, and there's a little string that you put inside your sock to touch your skin, and it grounds you.

Does it say it has to be touching your skin for it to

strap?

The more, yeah, the more surface area, the better.

So those are those are grounding you. And then the other way to do it in the winter is to buy like these earthing or grounding products for indoors that you plug into the electrical outlet, which you have to make sure is properly grounded first, and then you can ground yourself indoors by touching a rubberized mat that is conductive

by those PEMF mats.

So, PEMF

is.. wait, wait, I've got one more. Sorry, I just want.. I have one more thing that's actually really helpful that I personally use, you guys, in the winter, I have a pair of sheepskin slippers, and they're all leather, and they have sheepskin wool on the inside, so wool and leather are conductive. Well, then they're not conductive, but they don't block the earth frequencies. So, in the winter, I'm barefoot all the time, but I'm wearing those slippers all out and around, and then I'll go touch the trees, so that's like a really good way, Trisha. If you were to do that again, grab like

you could do like a all leather moccasin,

moccasin, as long as it doesn't have a rubber sole. Yeah, perfect. Yeah, they, I got them off Etsy, like they look like little elf slippers, they're really cute, but they're really warm, like I wear them

all, but it still gets through those porous feet somehow,

yeah,

yeah,

yeah. So, if it's a net, so silk, wool, linen, and leather and linen, those are in cotton,

cotton,

silk, wool, linen, leather, cotton, those are the only things that are conductive enough to still allow electrons to flow, but if you're wearing nylon, polyester, that's gonna, that will not allow you to be grounded,

and any ground is good, except asphalt. I think you were on the cusp of saying

that I was just about to say that we do have a video on the Primal Hacker YouTube channel showing everybody video of where you can ground and where you cannot ground. So, asphalt has petroleum products in it, sort of like things you can imagine them being plastic, and they're not conductive, so asphalt is not conductive, but neither is wood. If the wood is not living, so living trees you can touch with your hand, like Heidi said, and

hug them

and be grounded, but your deck boards or lumber, you can't conduct through that wood, so if you're standing on your deck, if you're standing on a wooden floor in your house, if you're standing on a piece of dead wood outside, it's not conductive.

So I have a slate patio standing on the slate, that's fine.

Stone is great,

so so long as it's touching the earth, or it's got a rebar, a metal rebar that goes through to the earth. Some people put, like people say, well, can I ground in my basement, because it's cement floor, and if there's metal rebar, yes, some cement floors underneath have a vapor barrier of plastic disconnecting you from the earth.

No, this is there's dirt under the slate,

then you're all rocks naturally, that counts. Definitely counts.

Good to know. I'm out there, I'm out there in my bear. All the time,

Rick's rocks,

I mean, slate is a really high frequency, it's a high vibration, and there's, there's the Sami culture. Are you guys familiar with that? It's like the Northern Finland peoples. There's a movie called The Cuckoo, and she has this thing, it's just kind of a random thing, but she has this thing called the Touchstone, and she's like a village like healer, and she'll go out and she'll touch the stone every time she passes by, like her hut into her healing hut. She has this thing called a touchstone, and it's, you know, starting to wear where she touches it with her hand, but she's actually, I mean, she's grounding every time she's touching that stone. It's really beautiful.

This is fascinating, and I feel like we could talk about it for hours and hours, but let's get practical for mothers and babies, and in their homes, what are the biggest sources of exposure that they can actively work to reduce by either eliminating these products or, as you said, turning the Wi-Fi off? Can you just like walk through the house and tell us how to reduce our EMF exposure, and should we all be actually be testing our homes for this electric frequency?

The testing is where I was going to go first. So people say, "What's the worst source in my home? And we've walked through our home and tested it, and we found the worst source was this magnetic field, followed by the Wi-Fi router, followed by the toaster oven, so

we had those copper pipes that was just as bad as the electric vehicles.

Yeah, so that's another common thing we can talk about, which we

love. My copper pipes don't

tell me copper

pipes are great. No,

copper

pipes

are great.

You want copper pipes, they're good for lots of different reasons, but there's one negative, and I'll talk about that, and then I'll say how to, how to test, and then walk through people through the house. So, the most common thing that people have in their home is the Wi-Fi router. So, we'll talk about that in a minute. The second most common thing is copper pipes. Why is that a problem? The problem is that in the United States, the National Electric Code, the NEC, requires you to ground your electricity in your home, the circuit panel with the electric coming into your house to the copper pipes by code, by law. So, by law, you ground everything to the copper pipes, because those water pipes are going underground into the city water supply. The problem is everybody's grounding to those, and many people's homes, especially if they're older, like our neighborhood is older homes, early 1900s they're not wired properly, they're mis-wired, and that means they're feeding electricity onto the copper pipe because they misconnected the neutral to the power line, but the return is supposed to be the neutral is supposed to return back to the electric panel after the electricity runs its circuit, but a lot of people take that neutral and they put it in the wrong spot, and it's sending the return energy to the grounding portion of the copper pipe, and it's sending electricity onto the copper pipe into the neighborhood, and then onto everybody's copper pipe, entering their home, and the electric field on our copper pipe was so high, we had, we had, and this is what I recommend people do, we have our own testing meters, you need a microwave test meter, you need an electric field testing meter, and you need a magnetic field testing meter, they make an all-in-one called the try field meter, that's pretty good, fairly inexpensive, or you can borrow one from the library. Our library has one, you can go borrow it for free, your library might too. But we hired a building biologist. Building biologists are paid to come into your home, look for mold, and test every EMF field, and tell you what the most burdensome EMF fields are in your house, where you sleep and spend the most time, and in your nursery, and the most common thing in a nursery that is unfortunately like acting as a miniature cell phone tower is the baby monitor, and baby monitors typically run off Wi-Fi. You can find Wi-Fi free versions on Amazon that still run off microwaves. They say Wi-Fi free, but they're still microwaving the baby.

Wait, they'll say no Wi-Fi, they'll say low EMF, and they'll use all these green washing like marketing terms. You guys, so you really got to be careful and look really carefully. I did the research on Amazon, and I tell you what, I couldn't find one that I was like, this is a scam. It's, it's all some type of EMF that is coming out of that monitor and into your, into your baby's room, into your baby. So,

your, your baby has an unformed skull, so there's no bone protecting its brain from that microwave radiation.

So, I'm just going to put it out there that I raised three children and never used a baby monitor. The only time I ever had one was briefly when I was in Canada at a summer camp, when I was a long, long distance away from, you know, the baby sleeping in the cabin, and it is perfectly. Be okay to not have a baby monitor in your home. You will still hear your baby when they wake up and cry. And when we were raising our baby, Cynthia, it wasn't even a thing to have a monitor on the baby monitor. It was just like a little radio communication kind of thing, like a walkie talkie type of style. So it was already less. I don't know if those still exist, but we, it seems like we can't. We mothers today would feel like they were doing something really dangerous by not using a baby monitor. It might be more dangerous to use one.

I think it's more dangerous, like personally, from what I've learned about EMF, and from hearing from the experts in the world, building biologists. We also ran a retreat with RFK Junior's attorney, Daphna Tackover. She is an expert on EMF and g. She was suing the wireless companies with RFK Junior a number of years ago, so she's quite an expert. We had her and a building biologist, Brian Hoyer, at our retreat, and so they say those are very, very dangerous. However, you can still have a baby monitor, and it can be EMF free. So, I think people need to know you can buy a baby monitor from, I think, it's Tech Wellness, Tech wellness.com We're not affiliated, they do great work. It's August Bryce who owns the company. They have a baby monitor that's EMF free. It's might be a little pricey.

It's the only one on the market that I would recommend, you guys. There are no others, honest to God, that I've done. I've done the research, and I cannot find any others, except there's a one. There's a, there's a workaround, because it's pricey. The one on tech wellness is pricey.

You can get one for super cheap, like a ring camera, ring doorbell camera, you can get the ring cameras for in your house, and most people like use those off Wi-Fi. You can get any security monitor, whether it's a ring camera, a generic brand, you just want to get one that's not Wi-Fi enabled, you get one that's Ethernet connected, you connect it to Ethernet cable, just like we used to connect all of our computers, and they're actually faster and more reliable, and a baby monitor that would be good. So, you connect your Ring camera to an Ethernet cable, there's no Wi-Fi, it still connects to your phone, and you can still have everything you want. The

only downside is, like, you're going to have cords, it's going to be inconvenient, it's, you know, you're going to have a cord, it's going to be hard connected. A lot of people are like, oh, I don't like that esthetic, right? But the microwave oven, hopefully you don't have a microwave in your, in your house, but the microwave oven has gigahertz, it's called 2.45 gigahertz, and the gigahertz that's coming out of, even like your Wi-Fi, is 2.45 gigahertz, so these are like when we say microwave, when we're microwaving your kid, like, if you're holding your baby and you're having your phone right next to its tiny little skull, you're breastfeeding, you're holding these microwave frequencies right next to your baby's skull,

so it causes cellular damage.

I mean, it had heating damage. Do you have that scariest part, and I'm not trying to be alarmist here, you guys, but like, I don't think we truly know what the damage can be, because I, they won't study

it. I agree, we don't know. Yes.

Oh, I mean,

right, that's a really, that's a very important point, because I do think that many of the women in our community have opted out of microwaves, because it's just been around for a long time, that, oh, microwaves are bad, shouldn't stand in front of them. Of course, distance makes a huge difference, right? If you're using a microwave and you're in the other room, it's probably not - that's not really a problem. But the cell phone next to the baby's head, which is so common, especially for mothers who are breastfeeding and scrolling while they're breastfeeding, which is totally understandable that you would want to do that, because breastfeeding can take a long time, and you're stuck sitting down for a while, but that is like putting a microwave to your baby's head, that's what you're saying.

Let's walk through the home a little more. So, you had mentioned a toaster oven. What is one to do when you find these pockets in your home? What, what do you do?

So, so the second most common thing, other than Wi-Fi router baby monitor, is going to be your copper pipes, and what we did, we for 60 bucks hired an electrician, and we said put in a dielectric material between the copper pipe coming into our home and the copper pipes in our home, so the water supply pipe, there's a material, it's called a dielectric. It's basically plastic, it's non-conductive. So all that conduction that's coming in on the grounded pipes to your home, and and then going through your house, and and EMF-ing you, you just cut the pipe and you put a plastic dielectric on it, and nothing more is coming into your home, and you can still, by code, ground your home, then to those copper pipe, the copper pipe going out the door that was coming in from the city. You can still do that. You can still ground it to your own copper pipes that go out the door, no problem. And then you can take new readings, and you'll have no electric fields on those pipes,

but, but I think that, like, the very first thing people. Can do, you guys, is turn off your Wi-Fi at night, like that is the number thing. Your takeaway from this entire podcast, let your body heal at night. You need to regenerate, let your cells regenerate, let your body rest and heal, cuz you don't want to be constantly stressed at night, because sleep is the number one biohack. So, going through the house, Wi-Fi, turning off your Wi-Fi, not holding your phone up to your head, not keeping your phone in your, you know, like the not in your bra, not in your yoga pants, not in your back pocket, not your organs, unless it's on airplane mode, and then you know, looking around your house and going, what is wireless in my house? What's a smart device that I have in my house? Do I have an Alexa? Do I have lights that are talking to me? I mean, there's so many different things, and if it's wireless, ask yourself, how does this work?

Well, explain the toes. I want to go back to the tools for oven. Yeah, I haven't had a microwave in 25 years. I need a long run not to have them, but I use my toast driven all the time. It's a key feature of our kitchen. So, should we not have that?

What do

you do? Nope, you should totally have it, and you can totally have televisions and gaming systems.

Okay,

and just going back to the microwave, I've tested tons of microwaves with my microwave testing meter, and they all leak every single

one

of, don't stand in front of them.

It was nine feet, we had to stand before we,

it was like 50 feet, but it does drop after 10 feet. So, distance is important. So, the toaster oven, why was the toast rubbing a problem? It's mine's not smart, it's not wireless, it's plugged in. It creates a really big magnetic field, and most people are standing oftentimes next to their refrigerator, next to their toaster oven, waiting for something to cook, next to their electric stove, and those are really big magnetic fields. So, what did I do? All I all that told me to do is that when I, when I bake or warm something up in the toaster oven, don't stand right next to it while I'm doing it. Just be at least five feet away.

Should you unplug it when you're not using it, or that doesn't change anything?

It doesn't change anything for the toaster oven itself. It does cut down on electric fields a little. Where it makes a big difference is your printer, your smart TV, your gaming systems. When your printer is on standby, and everything is shut down on your printer or your television, but your television can be turned on with a little remote button. It is still giving off microwave radiation in the Wi-Fi range, the same as your microwave oven, same frequency. You can measure it, but when you put them on a power strip and turn the power strip off, where printer, your smart TVs will stop emitting that microwave radiation. They don't have to be turned on, they don't have to be being used to emit the radiation, they emit it even in sleep mode.

How about distance? Can you just give us, like, a number, for example, if we have a gaming system in the bedroom where we sleep, which is, I know, not a good idea, but I know people have that if their bed is five feet away, 10 feet away, 15 feet away. What's the number?

It's a logarithmic scale, inverse logarithm. So, basically, what happens is, if you're one inch away, the exposure drops by 10x So, even if you were one foot away, that's like 100x drop and exposure, so what's the safe recommended distance? Nobody knows is the honest answer. The Building Biology Institute has a little card on their site, and it tells you the magnetic, electric, and microwave readings from a meter that are safe and not safe, so truly every intensity or power level of each device is different, so the safe distance is different depending on the power level it's pushing the radiation out at, but in general, the further the better. If you're five to 10 feet away, it's a huge night and day difference from being one foot away, so we recommend most people like five to six feet away is a good number.

Would that also apply to baby monitors if they put them on the other side of the room?

Yes. The first, again, every microwave radiation source, the there's three ways to eliminate or reduce harm: distance, time, so reducing the amount of time, increasing the distance, or physically blocking the

signal,

and it, yeah, Heidi said it's cumulative, the the effect. So people might say, I sleep with my Wi-Fi router under my bed, and I'm fine. Well, you're not as susceptible to this as others, but over time you become more susceptible. All of us

do. So that's one of the questions I had. Is there a way to detox? Is it is grounding detoxing of this, or it's not. It is. Oh, good. Good to know.

Grounding, grounding is extremely effective to detox from electromagnetic fields.

We could tell the Daphne story. She had to go to the Catskills to, like, detox from all the radio frequency. From it was, it's an extreme example, but

some people have the. Condition, they've labeled it EHS, electro hypersensitivity, and it's people that have a hypersensitivity to electromagnetic fields and get massive debilitating reactions because they've been exposed to too many, or they are predisposed to this. So, Daphne attack over the attorney for RFK Junior, previous attorney, she's now doing something else. She grew up in Israel, and was part of the Israeli military, and was a radio operator. The military in the US studied radio operators because they became the most sick in the military, and they wanted to know why. They were looking into these radar devices, and they would have eye cancers. They had to find out why. They had headaches, they had to find out why. So, these EHS sensitive people detox by going to an environment with no non-native electromagnetic frequencies, like this area of West Virginia, that's a silent area. You can't even have an electric toothbrush in that area, because they're listening for signals from space or something, which is great, but they don't allow Wi-Fi, they don't allow cell phone signals, they don't allow electric toothbrushes, so that being away from that environment can help you detox as well.

I think Daphna spent two years in the Catskills, but she was off grid. She had to just go back to nature. Nature just healed her. So,

yeah,

yeah, I mean, anything you can do, you guys, to get outside, recharge your own batteries, right? Like, you go touch the tree, you get outside in the natural sunlight, you get grounded, you listen to things that are positive and uplifting.

Natural bodies of water,

natural bodies of water. I mean, there's so.. there are so many around us, even just taking a forest bath. I mean, literally, just go walk into the forest. I know that's easier for some people to get to the, you know, forest or whatever than others. But just go to your park, just keep it local, keep it simple.

But for most people, just real quick, the bathtub water, water is a Faraday cage to microwave radiation, and so taking showers or bathing, taking a bath or a jacuzzi or hot tub, that is immediately detoxifying for EMF and Daphna. That was what she had to do when she lived in Washington, DC, she had to take like four showers a day, but taking a bath is better, or getting in a natural body of water, even better.

But now I feel very justified taking my 25 to 30 minute bath every day. Is that actually enough to counteract this?

Yeah, like, does it just block? I can imagine it's blocking, but does it help to bring electrons into the body. How does that work?

If your bathtub is grounded, some people, like maybe Trisha, has copper pipes, so her bathtub might be grounded.

Ours is

cast iron, and it has copper pipes. A lot of people's are now plastic, and then they're connected to PVC pipes. They're not grounded,

so it's not necessarily true that water, in and of itself, it's not the water, it has to be grounded, and

it's better to be grounded, but the water in and of itself, even in an ungrounded tub, is healing, and that is because number one, you're creating a barrier to absorbing more EMF, and you're allowing your body to de-stress, and to, for the cells naturally will heal themselves if we give it what they give them what they need, so the water itself acting as a protective barrier is helping your body to relax, to de-stress, and then to heal from some of those things, and the water itself exchanges electrons with your body, it's better if it's grounded, because you're definitely going to be exchanging more electrons when you're grounded, and that's why natural bodies of water are always superior, but water in and of itself is still highly beneficial. So, I would say, and Heidi will completely wrap us up, so that you don't go into fear about all these things, but we have all these electromagnetic fields and microwaves all around us, and they are impacting our biology. There's no question about that. The question is, how severe is it, and how much should we protect ourselves? The benefit is there's easy ways you can both detox and improve your body by standing barefoot on the ground, by turning your Wi-Fi off at night when you go to sleep, so you can heal by putting a little bit of distance between yourself and your cell phone, so you don't have to necessarily put your cell phone in your pocket, you can put it in your backpack or your purse, and that little bit of distance makes a huge difference. You can also put it on airplane mode, and then when you take it off airplane mode, look at your messages, make your phone calls, put it back on airplane mode before it goes in your pocket. You can put it on airplane mode when you go to sleep. It will still work as an alarm clock, even in airplane mode. People freak out about that, but it definitely still works. If you do those things, you'll be better off than most people that are sleeping with their Wi-Fi routers on and their cell phone under their pillow.

Well, and I think a couple things, you guys looking at some resources online can be really helpful. I'm an artist and I'm a creative. I like visuals. And August was it, Bryce, August Bryce at Tech Wellness. She has some amazing videos where you can see her testing the baby monitors in real time on the YouTube channel Tech Wellness. I. Thought that was really helpful in just seeing, because we can sit here and talk about it all day, right? And we're like in esoterics, but to see, like, this is this is the monitor, she shows it to you, like, this is what it reads. Here's what I'm showing you, and here's it next to your baby's head. So go check out her videos on YouTube. Also, Primal Hackers, Thaddeus is old company, and he has a lot of videos. Just, it's like a, it's like a on YouTube, yeah, but it's just like a wealth of information, so go poke around there a little bit, and then also take small steps, like we throw a lot at people, and we don't want it to be overwhelming. Listen to this a couple of times, because you'll pick up different things every time you listen to it. I listen to podcasts two, three times, because obviously the first time you're just not going to hear everything, or you'll, you'll be in a different place, and you'll be like, "Oh, I went and researched this thing, come back and listen again, and then be like, "Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to work on these two things. Don't try to do everything at once, and don't freak out about it, because, honestly, like being happy and joyful, and living, you know, a positive life underneath all of it, like Doctor Joe Dispenza says, like you could eat the most gluten-free whatever diet in the world, but if you're walking around and you're negative and you know grumpy all the time, like that, none of that matters, right? So, like, it's inside as well as the outside, so we take care of both, and you know, like, we, we all want the same thing, so like, we want to live happy, joyful lives.